Your FP says 9:40...it's 6:15..

[GaTechGal]

What I like about the FP system is that it doesn't cost me extra or (as of this writing) require that I stay at a Disney hotel to have a chance to use it.

[Lasolimu]

I've always kind of blandly supported FP, but the more I read these arguments, the more I like it.

Why? It's anti-SG. It rewards those who know what's available, what's going on, and who take affirmative steps to use that knowledge. The ones getting irate about another line being fed into an attraction are mad because of a "lack of knowledge of the system," as a previous poster said.

But it's not a complicated system. It's very well publicized, and not restricted to a few. If someone either does not understand it, or chooses not to take advantage of it, that's on them.

I'd be inclined to agree, if there were enough fastpasses for everyone across all attractions that have them(total fastpasses across all attractions = capacity). As it is, no amount of planning can guarantee that you'll get a fastpass, you can arrive at rope drop, go straight to get the fastpass(why get a fastpass for an attraction that is currently a walk-on?), taking all shortcuts available to guests, and find that they are already all given out. You planned ahead, got there early, went straight there, took the fastest route possible and still didn't get one. Now you are stuck in the standby line waiting an hour watching the fastpass line wait 15 minutes, not because you didn't plan or didn't know, but because there weren't any left when you got there. It's not that you didn't know about it, didn't understand it, or chose not to use it. I don't think anyone would deny that watching someone go ahead of you after waiting only 1/4 of the time would be frustrating when you literally had no chance to get a fastpass.

This also doesn't change the fact that the parks feel more crowded because of it. The fastpass acts as a place holder for you in line which was previously done with your body. This allows your body to be elsewhere, essentially making it seem like you are in two places at once. Of course, this is exactly what fastpass was intended to do, get people out of line into shops. But it was never considered that people save their shopping until they are leaving the parks because they don't want to carry bags around all day. This sets them to wandering the park or in line for another ride.

Get rid of fastpass, it makes the parks feel more crowded and makes those unfortunate enough(either because they were unlucky or because they were stupid) frustrated about watching people wait in line for less time for the same thing.

[MyLittleAngels]

I wish there wasn't a fastpass system. I know "anyone" can get one, but that's simply not feasible for someone like me, who generally only goes in the evenings. I am a local, and as such, use the parks after school is out for the day, and homework is done ... There are many rides we can only ride in the very slow seasons (soarin, toy story MM, and frequently, Peter Pan) because the lines are prohibitive for the evening hours I have to attend.

You can say that I'm not the company's target audience, but I can promise that I spend far more than any week guest on meals, drinks, snacks, and stuff throughout the year of my AP's use. If there was no fastpass to contend with, I would be able to use some of these attrations I love outside of the few slow periods each year.

[PatchOBlack]

Perhaps it would be easier to understand if people thought of FastPass like a reservation for a popular restaurant. Most folks don't consider making a reservation as cutting in front of those who showed up without them. Also, like a reservation, anyone can make one, if there are enough "tables" available when the person wants to make that reservation, though not everyone is going to be able to get a reservation.

[WEDFan]

There have been a lot of really interesting observations about Fastpass here, and they’ve made me think about it more. There’s always a danger in thinking more, since I then feel like I need to share my thoughts.

The basic problem is that certain attractions are scarce resources. Demand is higher than capacity. Without Fastpass it is a fairly straightforward proposition: the ones who will ride are the ones willing to “bid” more of their time. Even doing this, you will have people who are unable to ride either because they are unwilling “pay” the price, or because they get to the attraction too late to accommodate the wait time due to commitments or park closing. In addition, you will have people who wait, but will be dissatisfied in the end because the wait was more burdensome than they felt it was worth. They come away feeling that they spent their whole time in lines and didn’t do that many things. Finally, you have people standing in line while there are under utilized resources elsewhere in the park, and some of those resources are revenue generating. In the meantime, attendance keeps rising over time so the problem gets worse.

So, the possible actions in response to this problem seem to me to fall in to a handful of categories. You can leave it as is, you can increase capacity, you can build new attractions, or try to shift demand to the under utilized attractions. Leaving it as is all the issues above.

Next, would be trying to increase capacity. Small changes to the attraction itself might increase throughput, but not significantly. You could also, just to pull a random example, build a second Dumbo. That’s an option with Dumbo (small footprint, small cost), but a second TSMM or ToT probably isn’t in the cards. It would be very expensive and it wouldn’t solve the problem of underutilized resources elsewhere in the park.

You could build new attractions (or even add a new gate) to spread people out and draw them away from the E-tickets. Again, this would be very expensive and you could very easily move the problem by creating a new hotspot. Ultimately you will need to do this, not to spread demand, but to accommodate the increase in guests and to keep loyal guests returning. As a solution to the original problem, though, it’s not too practical. One approach in this category is just plussing an existing attraction. It’s like building a new attraction, but cheaper. There are limited candidates for this, though.

Finally, you can attempt to shift demand. You can either push people away from over utilized attractions, or you can pull them towards under utilized ones. Pushing people away already happens when guests look at the wait time. You want to limit its effect though, because pushing usually creates negative impressions. So you are left with pulling them. There again it is difficult to do since there is a reason some are over utilized and others are under. You can try to manage this with promotions, etc., but it is again limited.

Anything I’ve missed or have I misjudged benefits/drawbacks?

To be continued…

[WEDFan]

…Continued

Wow, I can’t believe I wrote so much that I needed two messages. Don’t remember doing that before. Hope I haven’t bored anyone to death. :twisted:

At any rate, with all the stuff above, I think Fastpass is a pretty good compromise. For the people who use it, they get to experience attractions that they might otherwise pass by. It lowers the “price” for the big attractions. It doesn’t hurt capacity. The people who don’t use it may have to pay a slightly higher price in wait time, but the overall average is probably the same or less.

And, yes, as Goofyernmost posted, not everyone who wants to use Fastpass will get to. I’ve seen that in particular with TSMM, but it does seem to accommodate most who want to use it as long as they prioritize and put the effort into getting the ones they want. It seems fairer than other other method of giving guests priority. It’s not perfect, but remember, with traditional lines not everyone gets to ride either. The capacity remains the same. I understand the frustration for the locals who only come in the evening, too. But, by the same token, most people on vacation only get a chance once per year or less. I imagine the locals get many more chances and will get to experience the attractions during slower times of the year or maybe on a weekend when they can come in early.

As Lasolimu pointed out, Fastpass gets people out of lines and into the parks. While it may make things more busy elsewhere, that’s actually good for Disney. Some of the people not in lines will be getting a bite to eat or shopping. Others will be riding less busy rides, thus using them more completely. This may increase wait times for some of the less popular rides, but we’re probably talking about 5 or 10 minutes instead of walk on. I haven’t got any facts to back that up – just observations. Have you guys seen a significant increase in wait times for non-Fastpass attractions? I think it’s good for the people who use Fastpass, too. They come away having experienced more. Instead of 60 minutes in a queue, they might have ridden two other rides. They get the big one and some small ones, too.

What does everyone think? I’ll be quiet, now. :D:

[PatchOBlack]

Excellent observations, WEDFan!

[GaTechGal]

WEDFan, you sound like an Industrial Engineer. (not that there's anything wrong with that)

[kurtisnelson]

WEDFan, you sound like an Industrial Engineer. (not that there's anything wrong with that)

I'm no longer IE, so feel free to make fun of it. But yeah, WEDFan, you basically summarized the fun exciting internal documents of the IE department.

[Lasolimu]

That's an interesting analysis WEDFan, but there are definitely more things to consider. People might be elsewhere in the park, I could see getting food, but not shopping. People generally don't want to carry their purchases around all day so they wait until they are leaving the park to make them. This might be changed with a free package pick-up system(I admit that I don't know if such a system is in place yet, it could be a challenge due to the numbers of people in park on a given day) where you could just pick everything up on your way out. At the same time you can question if they are buying anything they wouldn't already have had they waited until the end of the day. I think, in general, this will be a no. Visitors generally make the trip on a budget so they don't want to spend it all through the day and will again wait. All that can be guaranteed by getting them into shops during the day is that they might find something they wouldn't have known about otherwise. I don't see a big increase in merchandise sales from it.

As for food, yeah, people might buy food during this time, but they are going to eat anyway so whether or not this ends up benefitting Disney is debatable. I would say it has no effect on Disney food sales throughout the day.

You also have to consider the number of people roaming around the park increases making it feel more crowded. This can make it difficult to get around the park adding to the time cost to do something.

There is also a loss in theming due to fastpass. Think of the Indiana Jones queue in DLR, it is massive and full of theming. Now that it has fastpass the majority of the theming simply passed right by. Queue lines are often designed(especially at Disney) to hold large numbers of people and keep them entertained while waiting, this is lost on several attractions because of fastpass.

As for wait times and efficiency of attractions at putting people through, I don't think I have ever seen an attraction at any Disney park I have visited that was a walk on. There are so many people in the parks on any given day that it isn't a problem so they have no need to push people to other areas. They had already accomplished this by spreading the popular rides to various areas in the park. This draws the crowds to those areas and thus to less popular attractions keeping them busy.

Fastpass creates a feeling of anger and frustration from people that are unable to use it for whatever reason. This combined with the fact that the parks feel more crowded and harder to navigate leads to frustrated guests who may not return, they will also tell friends that it isn't worth it. This costs Disney money, I would guess much more then the added increase that could come about from added merchandise/food sales.

As for doing more because of fastpass, I don't see it. In my experience, wait times for everything have increased dramatically after fastpass was put in, added to the extra time to get around and there is nothing gained.

I really don't see fastpass as a good thing to maintain, and with the idea of reserving ride times from home it will only get worse.