The beginning of the end? Or the end of the beginning?

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Re: The beginning of the end? Or the end of the beginning?

Post by TiggerHappy » Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:52 am

The Company couldn't track me even if they wanted to. I only share my SGTs on VERY obscure sites. :p

But if there was a way to cover up my tracks even more, that'd be great.



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Re: The beginning of the end? Or the end of the beginning?

Post by WEDFan » Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:53 am

It's been great to see more activity on SGT and the return of some familiar members. As a non-CM I am grateful for the community here, but I understand the value of having a place to go in order to vent about work, so I am more than willing to let the needs and wishes of the CMs go first. If SGT continues as a forum for both CMs and non-CMs, I will happily remain and do what I can to help keep it going, in both money and time. If there is something I can help with now, please feel free to PM me.



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Re: The beginning of the end? Or the end of the beginning?

Post by Tiny Tim » Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:54 pm

As a non cast member I love reading the stories here. The problem I have is the co ( any co that is) telling you what you can and cant do on your own time. I understand they want to protect there rep and the disclaimer is fine but to go after someone for doing something when not working is nuts. If you want to control me then pay me around the clock then you can.



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Re: The beginning of the end? Or the end of the beginning?

Post by Goofyernmost » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:32 am

Tiny Tim wrote:As a non cast member I love reading the stories here. The problem I have is the co ( any co that is) telling you what you can and cant do on your own time. I understand they want to protect there rep and the disclaimer is fine but to go after someone for doing something when not working is nuts. If you want to control me then pay me around the clock then you can.
High Ideals, but apparently you haven't been out in the world very much. Unless you are born rich, your life is never your own. You always owe something to someone and if a Company's image can be damaged, like it could be through a forum like this, then they can and do say, if you cannot keep things to yourself, you can take them with you when you leave. Just don't come back. Never knew a company that didn't deal with stuff that way in one degree or the other.

A company like Disney spends a lot of time and energy and money on maintaining an image. Information that can be forthcoming from a Cast Member via a board like this one, can undermine that effort. Most of the CM's and those that aren't, like myself, know it as fun and an interesting vent. However, it can be a problem if the wrong people read it and it has a negative affect. So basically, a place like Disney, says...yes you are on your own time and you have the freedom to say whatever you want, however, we maintain the right to separate you from your information source if it becomes a negative for the company. And you both would be right. You'd just have to ask yourself if the possible cost is worth it.


:goofy: :goofy:

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Re: The beginning of the end? Or the end of the beginning?

Post by Tiny Tim » Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:57 pm

Yes I have been out in the world for a while. I had a situation where the company backed me up as I was on my own time. I worked as a school bus driver on long island and one sat night while out with a group of people a mother saw me drinking a beer and went to the co on Monday demanding I be fired as she saw me drinking. Jim the president found out from her it was a sat night and told her point blank he was not working so we cant do anything about it. He finally had to go to court to get her to leave us alone. Most places I worked did not care what you did off the clock.



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Re: The beginning of the end? Or the end of the beginning?

Post by Goofyernmost » Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:36 pm

Tiny Tim wrote:Yes I have been out in the world for a while. I had a situation where the company backed me up as I was on my own time. I worked as a school bus driver on long island and one sat night while out with a group of people a mother saw me drinking a beer and went to the co on Monday demanding I be fired as she saw me drinking. Jim the president found out from her it was a sat night and told her point blank he was not working so we cant do anything about it. He finally had to go to court to get her to leave us alone. Most places I worked did not care what you did off the clock.
Seriously, that isn't even close to connected with what we were talking about. I doubt Disney would get all bent out of shape if someone said a CM had been drinking the night before either. However, start telling everyone about the kid that picks his nose, or how the principle was seen with his secretary, or how the school is messed up and the teachers don't know what they are doing. Or that the upper level management were dumber then a bucket of rocks. Then come back and tell me just how much they will be willing to back you up. I think your support group will instantly vanish, even though you were doing all that "on your own time".


:goofy: :goofy:

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Re: The beginning of the end? Or the end of the beginning?

Post by Tiny Tim » Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:38 pm

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I must have been lucky to work for places that support and realize that when you are off the clock that they cannot control you. I know quite a few people that feel the same way I do.



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Re: The beginning of the end? Or the end of the beginning?

Post by Zazu » Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:22 pm

Tiny Tim wrote:I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I must have been lucky to work for places that support and realize that when you are off the clock that they cannot control you. I know quite a few people that feel the same way I do.
You have been lucky, but I cannot say that either of you is wrong.

Disney, like every other company I've worked for, treats this as a balancing act. It takes into consideration where your words or actions take place, whether or not you're hourly, whether or not you have Union representation, and how easy it is for the Company to deny responsibility.

The challenge to this balancing act is that the fulcrum is the lowest level of management. If your immediate supervisor is a moron, you have cause to worry that the balance will be tipped away from you. If he's too lenient, there's a good chance his supervisor will step in with even more draconian results. This isn't just Disney -- it's human nature.

So yes, those of use on cast here are living dangerously. I tread carefully, using the disclaimer suggested by Company Legal, avoiding all names, specific dates, and as much identifying information as I can given the situation. You'll notice I don't tend to comment on incidents in the news, too.

Can Disney figure out who Zazu is? Undoubtedly. Will they take action against me? Probably not, so long as I continue to be careful about what I say and where. Have they already? Yes, some things I wrote here got back to me and they asked me politely to stop -- I stopped, and haven't heard another word about it. This is a sign that I have good local management who like me, but it's not guarantee of future immunity.

So, am I pushing my luck? Yes, a little. But if I couldn't share the stupid *somewhere*, how could I stand to endure it!


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Re: The beginning of the end? Or the end of the beginning?

Post by Csaks » Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:07 pm

YANXWIN wrote:I appreciate the fact that you have allowed non-cast members to participate in this site. I may not contribute as much as cast members, but is is a site I am on everyday because I love the friendship and the stories. I appreciate the efforts you guys make in creating magic for us guests and I like the look into your work. If I am banished, then thanks for the stories. If I am allowed to stay, yay for me.
Couldn't have said it better.

I love reading all your stories and check in about once a week depending on life's comings and goings. Usually more so when we have a trip coming up. Thank you guys for everything here and at Disney and I will do my best never to give any of you cause to talk about me here. lol



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Re: The beginning of the end? Or the end of the beginning?

Post by WEDFan » Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:04 am

Tiny Tim wrote:I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I must have been lucky to work for places that support and realize that when you are off the clock that they cannot control you. I know quite a few people that feel the same way I do.
I've worked in both types of environments. It really is legitimately different for companies like Disney. When you have a large company which produces intellectual property (IP) and/or branded content/products/services, that company has a fudiciary responsibility to safeguard stockholder value, and as a large company the means of doing that are often undiscerning or brutish.

To start with, as a copyright holder, Disney has a legal obligation to monitor for and react to copyright infringements. If your copyright is infringed and you don't act to defend it, you can lose it in the eyes of the law. That's just corporate 101. So it's pretty much given that they have bots and people searching the internet endlessly for anything pertaining to Disney in all their parts and pieces. Then you have to look at how much of a role their IP, brand and reputation play in the bottom line, you have to know they will be looking for anything that can injure or diminish that. That's why they're watching you even when you're off the clock.

As far as enforcement goes, companies like that tend to have language in your employment agreement telling you that you aren't allowed to damage the company, even off the clock. Think about it this way: If you worked in a small store, your boss probably wouldn't care if you stole from them on the clock or off the clock. Either way you'd be fired. Releasing secrets or information that damaged the reputation of the company is a lot like stealing from the company, and in the case of information on the internet, the damage can be huge.

All that doesn't even get into exposing the company to a lawsuit. If the information posted on the internet could inspire someone to sue, or could provide someone with an active suit additional ammunition, you are again harming the company. The bigger the company, the more likely it is to be targetted by spurious lawsuits. A lot of the people (and their attourneys) don't need a lot of encouragement to launch a suit against major corporations.

While Disney has no right to prevent a CM from saying things that don't damage the company, it's not always easy to evaluate the potential harm. Because of that, you end up with enforcement that can be over zealous. Let's be honest, the easiest thing would be for Disney to make their CM's sign an employment agreement that says they can't say anything about the company to anyone. Zero risk. But that is excessive, difficult to monitor, and likely not legally enforcable. Hence the balancing act that Zazu talks about.

I think it's only fair to acknowledge that Disney has a legitimate concern in what might be said on a site like this. It's also important to realize everyone needs to evaluate any pontential risks to participation based on their own feelings and knowledge of the people in their management structure who are responsible for protecting company interests.

I think whatever we can do to help, it's important that we do it, even if that means changing the focus of the site or seeing it go away. Only the CMs can really make that call.



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