Disney to allow beards

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hobie16
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Re: Disney to allow beards

Post by hobie16 » Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:41 pm

CA Screamin Dude wrote:The US Army also lost its suit...
Not quite as broad a decision as you'd think.

Rabbi Wins Beard Lawsuit, To Be Sworn in as Army Chaplain

December 08, 2011 Associated Press

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. – An Orthodox Jewish rabbi who was barred from serving as an Army chaplain because he refused to shave the beard required by his faith has won his legal fight against the military and will be sworn in Friday.

Rabbi Menachem Stern of Brooklyn will be officially admitted to the chaplaincy in a ceremony at The Shul Jewish Community Center in Surfside, Fla. Stern is a member of the Chabad Lubavitch movement of Judaism, whose rabbis are prohibited from shaving their beards.

"I felt this was my calling," Stern said of the chaplaincy.

The rabbi saw an advertisement in late 2008 for military chaplains and attended a recruiter's presentation. After consulting with his wife, he decided to apply in January 2009, making clear in his application he intended to keep his beard.

"Although we adapted to the modern world, we still maintain old-world values," he wrote. "By not trimming my beard, I represent the unadulterated view of the holy Torah, the way we believe a person should live."

Some Orthodox Jews don't shave, believing it's outlawed by a passage in the Book of Leviticus: "Do not clip your hair at the temples, nor trim the edges of your beard."

According to the lawsuit he filed later, Stern was alerted by both email and letter that he had been accepted. When he first got word, he said he jumped in the air, thrilled at the news.

A day after the latter mailing, though, the Army rescinded its offer, citing its prohibition on beards.
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Re: Disney to allow beards

Post by felinefan » Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:19 pm

I was reading a column--think it was in Reader's Digest--that they had this feature where they would present a legal case and ask the reader how they would decide if they were the judge and jury. One case was that of a black man who had to wear a beard, because shaving caused unsightly razor bumps, who took a job with a company that required men to keep clean shaven. The actual results, given either at the bottom of the page or on a different page, said that the man won. Half of all black men have a condition where the beard hairs corkscrew on their way out of the skin, causing the unsightly razor bumps, and the only way to avoid that was to not shave. How many companies do you suppose were labeled racist by firing or refusing to hire black men who couldn't shave?


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Re: Disney to allow beards

Post by TiggerHappy » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:47 pm

Shorty82 wrote:Oh, yeah, he freaks me out. The eyes and the expression on his face are evil looking in a way. He looks like he wants to eat children instead of hugging them or something.
And the dust on the photo making him look like he's drooling doesn't help either. :rolleyes:



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Re: Disney to allow beards

Post by Sioban » Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:27 pm

I don't think they are truly hurting for CMs. All I've heard recently is about how many seasonal people will probably have to drop because of the new 150 hours requirement. It's also been pretty hard to pick up shifts lately.

As for Pooh, while creepy, Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum from that era are even creepier than the ones now. I have a picture of me with both when I was little somewhere but can't find it to scan it. They look like they should be driving white, unmarked, vans and asking if I had seen their lost puppy.



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Re: Disney to allow beards

Post by CA Screamin Dude » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:50 pm

felinefan wrote:...One case was that of a black man who had to wear a beard, because shaving caused unsightly razor bumps, who took a job with a company that required men to keep clean shaven. The actual results, given either at the bottom of the page or on a different page, said that the man won. Half of all black men have a condition where the beard hairs corkscrew on their way out of the skin, causing the unsightly razor bumps, and the only way to avoid that was to not shave. How many companies do you suppose were labeled racist by firing or refusing to hire black men who couldn't shave?
The condition here is Pseudofolliculitis Barbae (PFB), classified medically as a disease of the skin and/or disorder of appendage, and disproportionately affects men of African, Mediterranean and Near Eastern descent, or certain races or persons with specific genetic information.

Federal anti-discrimination laws specify race and disability as protected classes, while California recognizes ancestry, national origin, genetics and persons with a medical condition as protected classes. Florida recognizes national origin as a protected class.

This is exactly the case Domino's Pizza lost when the Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals found that their no-beard policy violated Title VII of the (Federal) Civil Rights Act, though the allegations took place in Nebraska.

Per the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), employers may invoke a no-beard policy, but must make reasonable accommodations for employees who suffer from PFB, such as allowing facial hair shorter than X inches in length.



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Re: Disney to allow beards

Post by CA Screamin Dude » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:23 am

felinefan wrote:...One case was that of a black man who had to wear a beard, because shaving caused unsightly razor bumps, who took a job with a company that required men to keep clean shaven. The actual results, given either at the bottom of the page or on a different page, said that the man won. Half of all black men have a condition where the beard hairs corkscrew on their way out of the skin, causing the unsightly razor bumps, and the only way to avoid that was to not shave. How many companies do you suppose were labeled racist by firing or refusing to hire black men who couldn't shave?
The condition here is Pseudofolliculitis Barbae (PFB), classified medically as a disease of the skin and/or disorder of appendage, and disproportionately affects men of African, Mediterranean and Near Eastern descent, or certain races or persons with specific genetic information.

Federal anti-discrimination laws specify race and disability as protected classes, while California recognizes ancestry, national origin, genetics and persons with a medical condition as protected classes. Florida recognizes national origin as a protected class.

This is exactly the case Domino's Pizza lost when the Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals found that their no-beard policy violated Title VII of the (Federal) Civil Rights Act, though the allegations took place in Nebraska.

Per the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), employers may invoke a no-beard policy, as PFB is not a covered disability under ADA (Lynch v. Graul's, 2006).

In the end, that makes no-beard a race, ancestry, genetic and at times religious discriminatory policy, but not a medically discriminatory one.

Gender is also a protected class, yet surprisingly enough, policies such as no-beard or hair style targeted at men or women are not discriminatory. For instance, allowing women to wear jewelry while prohibiting men from wearing a ring is not discriminatory. Transvestitism and transsexualism are explicitly excluded from coverage under the ADA, though some states voluntarily cover them.

Though disparate impact is discrimination, it does not apply to "choice" traits, such as facial hair which can be removed in one way or another. Because ADA does not cover PFB, employers are not required to make accommodations for such a disorder that makes it impossible to shave. In other words, employees who have been fired or not promoted because of their PFB have lost lawsuits claiming discrimination along these lines.

Still, Disney's legal action regarding no-beard originated mostly from religious and racial origins, items that the courts have been more willing to side with employees on.

In simplest terms:

Old Disney hires an employee and then fires that employee for having a beard. Employee sues, alleging religious/racial/genetic/ancestry discrimination. Disney settles or loses, must payout a huge sum.

OR

Old Disney refuses to hire an employee for having a beard. Employee sues, alleging failure-to-hire based on religious/racial/genetic/ancestry discrimination. Disney settles or loses, must payout a huge sum.

New Disney hires an employee and does not fire that employee for having a beard. No lawsuit, no settlement or loss, no cost to the Company.



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Re: Disney to allow beards

Post by Goofyernmost » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:16 am

Yes, but couldn't the length of the beard still become an issue? And wouldn't it be likely to become one? Especially under religious discrimination?


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Re: Disney to allow beards

Post by felinefan » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:50 pm

I've seen Indian men, especially old ones, with their beards rolled up and tied under their chins with a string, which is attached under their turbans. They look like they are wearing a short beard with a chinstrap.


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Re: Disney to allow beards

Post by CA Screamin Dude » Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:15 pm

Goofyernmost wrote:Yes, but couldn't the length of the beard still become an issue? And wouldn't it be likely to become one? Especially under religious discrimination?
The courts have generally held that safety can trump religion on this matter—though not always—in that an employee's position or duties may be legally altered so that his beard no longer presents a safety hazard. However, the most pertinent non-pending (not active) case alleging religious discrimination for no-beard never made it to a verdict.

That CA Department of Corrections lawsuit regarding a Sikh who must grow hair for religious reasons—who was barred from a certain job because, partially, significant facial hair prevents proper fitting of gas masks—was settled for $295,000 in addition to offering the plaintiff a position with the department.

For the record, the department's policy allows for a beard up to one inch in length if a medical condition is involved. The case was settled because the department didn't want to chance losing at trial.



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